The delusion of selective “agnosticism”

I’ve been conducting a discussion over on another blog (which, incidentally, has predictably ended up with the other party crying foul, claiming that he is “not trying to attain a reasoning state” and “as a student of human psychology” insisting on reading sinister motives into getting comments on one entry he made to a public blog quoting me at length and criticising my position and on a second entry written in response to my comments. There’s just no pleasing some people.) which revolved, in part, around the question of “agnosticism”.

The blogger wrote the following:

[Aleister Crowley] was openly agnostic about such topics as reincarnation, the immortality of the soul or the existence of God (as understood in the Abrahamic faiths, at least), but this faction appears actively antagonistic to such notions, and sometimes antagonistic to those holding them.

We have written in a previous post about the tendency for occultists to glibly spout poorly-understood philosophical platitudes and to get themselves in all kinds of messes as a result of it, and this is a good example. It is very fashionable in these times to claim to be “agnostic” about all manner of things on the grounds that “absolute proof is impossible”. The people who make these claims turn out to be woefully mistaken.

Let’s take the position that we are “agnostic” with regards to the existence of God, for instance, as conceived by the Abrahamic religions. It is certainly true that we cannot absolutely disprove the existence of such a god. However, we are equally unable to disprove Scientology’s saga of General Xenu, and equally unable to disprove the idea that we are the subjects of invisible monkey overlords who planted evidence of evolution in order to gradually encourage acceptance of the idea that monkeys are our forefathers and natural rules. Yet who takes either of these ideas seriously? Technically, the scientific method requires us to be just as “agnostic” with regards to this type of proposition as any other.

As we previously discussed, people have a tendency to take a pet theory – such as reincarnation – and reduce it to a question of “reincarnation or not reincarnation”, usually applying a 50% probability weighting to each option and throwing their hands up and saying “I just don’t know!” But they do not do this with, for instance, the General Xenu story and the fable of the Master Monkey Race, the latter two ideas simply never entering their heads.

It quite simply is not “agnosticism” to select ideas from an infinite sea of possibilities and to state “I shall be agnostic about these ideas, but not about the others”. The process of selecting the group of ideas about which one is prepared to be “agnostic” is an exclusionary one, a active choice-based one. One is deluding oneself if one believes oneself to be “agnostic” about reincarnation, for instance, but one is not equally agnostic about the Christian conception of heaven and hell, Valhalla, the Summerlands, the Celtic underworld, and every other conceivable and unconceivable idea about “life after death” that could ever be presented. To reduce the choice to “simple death” and “reincarnation” is to draw an a priori boundary around which ideas you are prepared to accept, and which you reject. This, quite simply, is not “agnosticism”.

If the person who claims to be “agnostic about reincarnation” is to be taken seriously, then he would need to demonstrate why reincarnation is even a likely possibility, let alone the most likely possibility, amongst all the others. If he cannot do this, then he is arbitrarily selecting reincarnation as one of the few theories that he is prepared to entertain, and this selection process denies his agnosticism.

The reality is that the number of ideas are potentially infinite, but the human brain does not have an infinite capacity, so it is absolutely impossible to be actively agnostic about every idea. Therefore, agnosticism always involves a selection of ideas about which one is prepared to be agnostic, and this exclusionary selection process denies the underlying “infinite openmindedness” which these people profess to be exhibiting.

It is no refutation to state that the individual is being agnostic about all the other possibilities by simply not letting them enter his mind, and to therefore avoid drawing a conclusion either way upon them, because by reducing the choice to a limited subset excluding these ideas, he is drawing a conclusion with regards to them, consciously or otherwise.

Moreover, it is meaningless to talk about agnosticism as a purely theoretical concern. It is no accident that all the various position the occultist claims to be “agnostic” about – reincarnation, the existence of the “divine”, the existence and interventionary nature of “spirits” and so on – are inherent in the theories behind his practices. The occultist has no reason to be “agnostic” about the General Xenu story because it simply never presents itself to him, whereas the others mentioned necessarily do because of his practices. The occultist therefore chooses to be “agnostic” about those elements which enable him to ascribe some form of legitimacy to his practices, which enable him to continue them without miring him in an even greater pool of cognitive dissonance.

We can draw an analogy with Pascal’s famous “wager”:

  1. If God exists, and we are righteous, we will be rewarded;
  2. If God exists, and we are not righteous, we will be punished;
  3. If God does not exist, and we are righteous, we will be neither rewarded nor punished; and
  4. If God does not exist, and we are not righteous, we will be neither rewarded nor punished.

Since there are no negative consequences associated with being “righteous”, but some eternally bad consequences associated with being “not righteous”, then the rational person would choose righteousness, which, presumably, includes believing in God.

Any first year philosophy student will naturally be able to tear this piece of startling idiocy to shreds, remarking that it relies on the presumptions that (1) we know what “righteousness” is; and (2) we know what “God” wants us to do. For the wager to make any sense, it needs to be first demonstrated that a God who, for instance, reserves punishment solely for those who have the presumption and audacity to think they know what “righteousness” is, cannot exist. It also needs to be demonstrated that a God who reserves punishment only for those who are wicked enough to believe in a slightly different God, cannot exist. The “argument”, therefore, whilst at first appearances seemingly sound – certainly sound enough to convince a vast number of Christians – is seen to be built upon a vast and arbitrary set of assumptions.

In the same way, this position of “agnosticism” which these occultists and others believe themselves to subscribe to is not a “neutral” position at all, but arises from an actually vast amount of selection; to be “agnostic” about reincarnation, but not about the other infinite number of possibilities, requires that reincarnation be specially selected from those possibilities, and the others rejected. Before we even begin down this road, therefore, we have abandoned “agnosticism”.

The only “neutral” position is indeed to never give these possibilities a moment’s thought; one can only be neutral towards them if one never things about them. Once one starts to think, one is no longer agnostics, because we simply cannot help but draw conclusions by the mere fact of being aware of an idea. Therefore, those conclusions come from one of two places; evidence, or from the imagination.

The true place for agnosticism is where the evidence suggests a number of competing alternatives, but is unable to come down strongly in favour of any of them. In such a case, we have a number of identified positions which could be consistent with the evidence, we just do not know which – if any – of them are true. For things which there is no evidence, we cannot be “agnostic”, because we cannot identify what it even is that we are supposed to be agnostic about.

It is simply not sensible to take a subject over which we have no confirmatory evidence whatsoever – such as ideas about “life after death”, or the “existence of God” – to invent one imaginary possibility out of millions, and then to claim “I am agnostic about it”. One would have to be agnostic about all these imaginary possibilities, and there are so many of them that singling out one for special attention demonstrates the very lack of objectivity that the professed “agnostic” is claiming. It is certainly not sensible to then construct an elaborate system of occultism or religion around that one selection from millions because “it might be true”. This is not an independent or neutral position; it is an active choice – based on no sensible grounds whatsoever – about which of an infinite number of possibilities will be accepted as being possible. And if there is no confirmatory evidence against which that choice can sensibly be made, then that leaves us with only one alternative; the active choice is being made non-sensibly on the basis of the imagination.

Now, ironically, many occultists will claim that the skeptical application of reason is “limited”. Indeed, the blogger referred to at the top of this post claims:

long ago I clued into the fact that what we call reason is always highly subjective, and thus arbitrary. As a result, it limits itself to its own horizons, when it should be the place whence we go out into the more unexpected regions of our personal universes. There, our ideas of what is so and not so will lose their clear definition, and the supra-rational can peep through our own cloudbanks.

In reality, we can see that the converse is the case. The delusionary occultist, in this particular example, restricts himself to “permanent death” or “reincarnation”. The “rationalist” – if we can call him that – recognises that none of the competing life-after-death theories have any evidence in their favour, and thus does not restrict himself by selecting a subset of those imaginary theories and forcing himself to think that one of them must be true. It is reason that demonstrates where we can not have knowledge, and to sidestep this process and to invent some imaginary knowledge using “supra-rational” process is to create a mental prison for oneself, one in which our entire outlook on the world is a captive of whatever fanciful delusions we happen to have been spoonfed that morning.

One cannot go through life without forming conclusions, despite how politically incorrect that may sound to occultists. Some occultists, as we have explained, make an active choice to be “agnostic” about reincarnation not to be open-minded, but precisely to allow themselves the possibility of it being true by virtue of specially selecting it for consideration. Once they start leaving offerings of bananas “just in case” the Master Monkey Race theory is true, then I’ll start taking their claims to “agnosticism” seriously. Until that time, what they delude themselves into thinking is “open-mindedness” is in fact a delusion mechanism, a selective “I don’t know” which serves as a sly and cunning backdoor into “well, actually, I do know.”

Yet again, we see how the abandonment of reason leads people straight into making rational mistakes. The statement “we can’t disprove reincarnation, therefore reincarnation might be true, therefore I’ll be ‘agnostic’ on the question of whether when we die, we die, or we are reincarnated” is itself a rational conclusion, and, as we have demonstrated, a misguided one. The person who believes there is merit in this position of “agnosticism” because “reason is imperfect” shuts themself off from applying reason to this rational conclusion, and it becomes a dead-end for them. Far from becoming free from reason, they’ve made themselves slaves to it. If they did not reject the role of reason, they would see easily the inconsistency in holding the position that reason is imperfect so we should be agnostic about everything without realising that that position is a rational one itself which makes claims to knowledge. The professed “agnostic” is in a contradictory position when he refuses to be agnostic about his agnosticism. 

Thus, when the original blogger expresses surprise at those who are “antagonistic” towards those who claim such “open agnosticism”, he should now be in a position to understand why. Those who profess it are at best mistaken, and at worst outright liars. It’s not the neutral and open-minded position that he thinks it is.

8 Comments on “The delusion of selective “agnosticism””


By The Speaking Clock. April 25th, 2008 at 1:23 pm

Another interpretation of Agnosticism…

The rational mind is Janus faced. When looking into the past it can draw from experience and make a rational decision as to whether something is beyond reasonable doubt, and present a number of future predictions based upon this.

However, in drawing from past experience an honest self analytical mind will percieve that it has made mistakes in the past due to lack of knowledge. Matters which once looked to be beyond reasonable doubt in an intellectual sense can be reclassified as doubtful in the extreme after being re-evaluated in the light of experience. Therefore – the rational minded will remain as willing to reconsider the evidence as any court of Law does in order to avoid perpetuating a miscarriage of justice.

In the case of life after death v absolute death, there is a prelimary ruling but the matter is adjourned and the court is set to be convened at the appointed time to consider any further evidence that the defendant may wish to present.

By Erwin. April 25th, 2008 at 2:36 pm

Another interpretation of Agnosticism…

I’m going to approve this comment, but I’ll confess right at the beginning to being rather nonplussed by it.

What you have basically said is that we make conclusions based on evidence, and then revise those conclusions when new evidence arises. I mean, obviously. This is so basic and fundamental that it quite literally is not worth mentioning. It would be a completely irrational position to state that one believes in making conclusions based on evidence but then to completely disregard, on an arbitrary a priori basis, any evidence that might arise in the future, and nobody who has even a passing familiarity with the scientific method does this. Nobody. Yet you seem to be presenting the idea as if it is some kind of interesting revelation.

Conclusions based upon evidence may indeed change as new evidence arises, or as flaws in inferences made on the basis of that evidence are revealed. But recognising this is categorically not “agnosticism”. What you are describing is not “another interpretation of Agnosticism” at all.

The man of science will say that he knows the earth orbits the Sun. He will also remaining willing to consider any (sensible) new evidence that suggests to the contrary, and if that evidence is convincing, he will change his mind, but until that evidence appears, he’s still going to say he knows it to be true. The fact that he admits the theoretical possibility of contradictory evidence doesn’t change this one little bit.

You appear to have missed the entire point of the entry, which is the psychology of the selective agnostic. Nobody, for instance, is “openly agnostic” about the Flying Spaghetti Monster, or about Russell’s teapot, because:

1. There is no evidence supporting either; and
2. They are obviously contrived.

It is only the first point which is important; generally people are not “openly agnostic” about things for which there exists no supporting evidence. Nobody is “openly agnostic” about the possibility of a colony of invisible angry gnomes living beneath the apple tree and nobody is “openly agnostic” about the possibility of clouds being pulled across the sky by invisible troupes of unicorns, because there is no evidence suggesting either of these things are true.

Yet, when it comes to things like reincarnation, the existence of “god”, and the like, people are “openly agnostic” about them, yet there is still no evidence in support of them. Why are they “openly agnostic” about one selected group of possibilities that are not supported by any evidence, but not “openly agnostic” about the infinite number of other possibilities that are not supported by any evidence?

The answer is obvious. As knowledge increases, the evidence against the existence of an interventionary creator “god” and against these kind of afterlife ideas has become overwhelmingly convincing. If the believer has a vested interest in maintaining his belief in such things, then he has only one real option open to him, which is to challenge the very validity of the knowledge-generating process. One way to do this is to appeal to “faith”, bypassing the need for reason altogether. The other way to do this is to attack the ability of reason in forming conclusions, and claiming that one must be “agnostic” about such things. Claiming to be “agnostic” gives one a way to discount the vast mountain of evidence against one’s pet theories, and to continue to delude oneself into thinking that “they might be true”, which is really just a back door into deluding oneself into thinkg that they are true.

As I explained in the article, the time for being “agnostic” is when you have no choice, when the evidence does not come down convincingly in support of any one account. When the evidence does come down convincingly in support of a particular account, then being “openly agnostic” is an irrational position, not a rational one. To ignore the mountain of conflicting evidence and to insist that such evidence is no reason to come down against a hypothesis as opposed to coming down for it, is to attack the entire validity of the knowledge-generating process. Anyone who claims to be “openly agnostic” about the existence of an interventionary creator god, for instance, either:

1. is completely ignorant of the contradictory evidence, in which case we need no longer consider them as being relevant to the current point; or
2. denies the possibility of forming conclusions based on evidence at all, in which case not only are they admitting to having no knowledge of the position that are arguing, but they are also admitting to having no knowledge of anything at all.

The idiocy of the selective agnostic’s position is obvious. The evidence against the existence of an interventionary creator god is, as we have said, overwhelmingly convincing. Yet, the agnostic still remains unconvinced because there is no “proof”. What evidence would convince him? Obviously not the vast mountain of contradictory evidence which already exists, otherwise he’d be convinced already. No, the selective agnostic will remain “agnostic” until there is confirmatory evidence. You’ll see this all the time:

This would naturally be quite difficult in the case of reincarnation, but perhaps events of a previous life could be verified through historical record or possibly by Archeological evidence, etc. Until this happens, through honest research, the theory of reincarnation will remain just that, a theory.

See? It doesn’t even cross the selective agnostic’s mind to consider the possibility that there could be some contradictory evidence, only confirmatory evidence. The position of the selective agnostic is simple: until confirmatory evidence arises, I will remain agnostic with respect to it.

Naturally, if the hypothesis with respect to which he claims to be agnostic is false, there will never be any such confirmatory evidence. This gives him the perfect opportunity to retain his “agnosticism” into perpetuity. The selective agnostic therefore, claims that evidence could make his mind, but we can see now that it is only evidence in support of the hypothesis that he wants to be true that will convince him. It’s an irrational, halfway position. It quite simply is not the neutral, rational or sensible position that so many of its adherents believe it to be.

By The Speaking Clock. April 30th, 2008 at 1:38 pm

If an agnostic is an agnostic because they have had a personal revelatory experience that can only be related to in their mind as a monism – then the effect upon the structure of his thinking ceases to resemble a set of scales that weighs each proof in the balance. His thinking is transformed on all levels so that any contradiction is unified and cancelled out.

No evidence can be provided for or against a monism. Nothing can be balanced against the experience. Little can be said about it and what little can be said can only be comprehended by another that has shared the same experience.

The perceptions and reasoning of a genuine agnostic is of a qualitively different nature from the selective agnostic that is the focus of your short essay, but this may not be differentiated from a perusal of thier reasoning. Indeed – the psychology of the former may cause them to ‘curse why and because’ rather more quickly in any debate and throw in the towel in the first round.

There is the possibility that life after death may be a monism, and only fresh faced fools babalon about that! :)

By Erwin. April 30th, 2008 at 6:54 pm

No evidence can be provided for or against a monism. Nothing can be balanced against the experience.

Firstly, there is no such thing as “a monism”, so whatever it is you are trying to describe, “monism” is not the word for it.

Secondly, evidence certainly can be provided for or against an experience. The experiencer is at liberty to decide whether or not to acknowledge that evidence, but that’s an entirely different matter.

The perceptions and reasoning of a genuine agnostic is of a qualitively different nature from the selective agnostic that is the focus of your short essay, but this may not be differentiated from a perusal of thier reasoning. Indeed – the psychology of the former may cause them to ‘curse why and because’ rather more quickly in any debate and throw in the towel in the first round.

I don’t think you understand what a “genuine agnostic” is. A “genuine agnostic” is one who is agnostic about a particular matter because agnosticism is the rational position. For instance, it is rational to be agnostic about the existence of intelligent life somewhere in this galaxy other than Earth. It’s arguably less clear-cut when talking about the rest of the universe, since the further out you go, the less of a problem improbability becomes, but the size of this galaxy is sufficient given the uncertainties of the probabilities themselves as to render the question fundamentally uncertain at the current time.

The “selective agnostic”, on the other hand, chooses agnosticism when this is not the rational position. In other words, he’s agnostic about something which can be demonstrated to be so unlikely as to make it rational to discount the idea.

So when you say “this may not be differentiated from a perusal of thier reasoning”, the reverse is true. It’s the difference in their reasoning which distinguishes them.

There is the possibility that life after death may be a monism, and only fresh faced fools babalon about that! :)

This is gibberish and deserves only a dismissive response. Please stop writing crap like this.

By The Speaking Clock. May 1st, 2008 at 6:20 pm

In the first paragraph you state there is no such thing as a monism.

Monism – definitions:-

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/monism/

Substantiate your claim please and we’ll move on to the next point if I have no objections to your assertion. :)

By Erwin. May 2nd, 2008 at 12:05 pm

In the first paragraph you state there is no such thing as a monism. Substantiate your claim please

“Monism” is a type of philosophical school of thought. There can no more be “a monism” than there can be “a wistfulness”. To talk of “many monisms” is incorrect English; the correct phrase is “many types of monism.”

Add to this the fact that none of these definitions of “monism” have anything even remotely to do with what you were talking about, and you can stop wasting my time. Any further comments from you that are frivolous, irrelevant or woefully ill-educated will not be approved, and no notice will be given.

By Llysse Smith Wylle. May 7th, 2008 at 5:20 pm

This reminds me of a discussion I had with my husband.

“Husband,” quoth I, “Yon plumbing leaketh.”

“How do you know?” he asked.

“The floor beneath the pipes is wet,” I said, “and the pipe itself is wet at the juncture.”

“I don’t think it’s leaking,” he said.

When I asked what brought him to that conclusion, he mentioned Robert Anton Wilson (whom we both adore), “maybe logic,” and many other philosophical reasons.

I cleared my throat.

“It is true,” I said, “that possibly some alien beings came down and urinated beneath our pipes, their urine consisting of dihydrogen monoxide, or water, as we mre commonly call it. And perhaps they had a sharp shooter, who was able to tag the pipe above, too. Maybe if I had been in here moments before, I would have seen them.

“It is also true,” I added, “that perhaps through some strange twist, there is condensation only on this one pipe, in this one spot.”

He looked at me expectantly. “However, I SUSPECT it’s a leaky pipe. Until we know otherwise, it’s probably the most likely of any theory we can come up with. In fact, let’s just operate under that assumption: our pipe is leaking.”

And alas, despite his clever argument, he was reduced to pipefitting for an evening, rather than reading philosophy.

(In an interesting coincidence, after his work, the water beneath the pipe ceased to appear. We think all his attention must have driven away the aliens.)

By Erwin. May 7th, 2008 at 7:14 pm

In an interesting coincidence, after his work, the water beneath the pipe ceased to appear.

Must be one of them “synchronicity” thingies.

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