The handicap of belief

On a recent reply to a post on John Crow’s blog concerning values, “Keith418” posted this:

Where do values like this come from? Many of us suspect a transcendent origin for certain values.

“The sense of the world must lie outside the world. In the world everything is as it is and happens as it does happen. In it there is no value — and if there were, it would be of no value.

“If there is a value which is of value, it must lie outside all happening and being-so. For all happening and being-so is accidental.

“What makes it non-accidental cannot lie in; the world, for otherwise this would again be accidental.

“It must lie outside the world.”

– Ludwig Wittgenstein, from Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus

This may be one reason why humanism reveals itself to be utterly nihilistic – it cannot posit real values because it denies a transcendent source for values and has cut itself off from the place that these real values must originate. In addition, we can see why the people trying to separate Thelema from magick and transcendental magical work are also doomed to fail – because they eliminate, from the start, the very place people need to go to find the values they will bring into reality in the very struggle Schmitt describes.

This piece of astonishingly inept reasoning highlights exactly the kind of way in which belief can prevent the kind of “critical thinking” that, in this case, the believer strongly advocates.

To illustrate, let’s assume Wittgenstein’s argument is valid. Keith418’s “argument” goes like this:

  1. “If there is a value which is of value, [the source of that value] must lie outside … the world”;
  2. Therefore values must arise from outside the world;
  3. Therefore there is a transcendental realm;
  4. Therefore anyone who denies the existence of a transcendental realm is stupid.

This is the exactly the same kind of error Kant made with his analysis of morality. Kant’s “categorical imperative” essentially argued that “real morals” must have universal applicability, and from this argument he proceeded to develop his analysis. He developed some principles which he believed were of universal applicability, and accordingly reasoned “therefore this is the true morality.”

Neither Kant nor “Keith418” appear able to see the enormous logical gap staring them in the face. Kant’s argument from “real morals must have universal applicability” to “this is the true morality” completely misses a crucial alternative: there are no morals having universal applicability, therefore there are no real morals. The argument simply cannot be completed without considering this alternative. Similarly, “Keith418″‘s argument goes “real values must arise from the transcendent, therefore the transcendent exists and we have to explore it to find the real values,” completely missing the alternative that if real values must arise from the transcendent and the transcendent doesn’t exist then “real values” don’t exist either. Both Kant and “Keith418” are taking a gigantic leap of faith when they assume that real morals and real values, respectively, exist.

“Keith418” criticises humanism because it has “cut itself off from the place that these real values must originate,” illustrating the leap of faith he has made that:

  1. “Real values” exist; and
  2. They must originate from the transcendental.

It is a classic example of incorrectly believing the universe to work in the way one wants it to.

The blindness this kind of belief engenders is easily visible. “Keith418” really uses this argument to convince himself that the “transcendental” exists, because he really wants it to exist, and for his silly ceremonial nonsense to have some kind of sensible basis; he really, desperately wants the universe to be that way, and simply will not accept the possibility of the alternative. As a result, he is blind to not only the logical errors he is making, but also to the logical errors Wittgenstein is making. He has deliberately closed down his own faculties of “critical thinking” that he so vigorously encourages others to employ.

Let’s assume that Wittgenstein is correct, that “real values” must originate outside the world because if they did, they would be “accidental” and therefore not “real”. So let’s assume those values originate in the transcendental. Now, let’s look at the values in the transcendental. Where do they originate from? If they originate from the transcendental, then they are accidental in exactly the same way as they would be if they originated in the world. So, in fact, not only must they originate outside of the world, but they must also originate outside of the transcendental, too. And so on into infinite regress. It’s the same kind of stupid argument that believes the theory of a divine creator is sensible because the world must have had a “first cause”, whilst completely ignoring the fact that their theory completely ignores the fact that their creator doesn’t seem to have a “first cause” himself.

“Keith418″‘s comment is a good example of the crippling effect belief has on the reasoning faculty, how the intrusion of belief into a logical argument completely throws it off into Lalaland, resulting in the arguer drawing some incredibly stupid conclusions, including – in this case – the conclusion that Thelema must be somehow concerned with Wittgenstein’s “real values.”

2 Comments on “The handicap of belief”


By Jay. April 26th, 2010 at 6:29 pm

we can conclude that it is true, that “real” values must come from a transcendent, but the transcendent itself can not transcend in an infinite progression (though The soldier and the hunchback postulates this)

But if we thing in terms of open and closed systems in entropy. The subjective microcosm only has a limited horizion of all possible experiences, this the whole universe is greater than the sum of one’s experiences. Then we can claim that the microcosm is a part of an open system, just like the earth is an open system because we receive light from the sun.

Ok, so the bigger system transcends the smaller, the macrocosm is transcendent of the microcosm. Thus even though the whole is still falling into entropy the smaller part is actually decreasing in entropy. That is for example life is reversing the normal flow of entropy, on a local level.

If we think of values this way, then the value of a thing is not intrinsic to the local level, that is not in the subjective sum of experiences, The value is found in how each experience allows us to grow and interact with new experiences beyond ourself. It is in how we share and interact with others, in LOVE under WILL.

Thus the universe as a whole may not have any ‘REAL” value, but we experience a sense of value by the interaction of our personal experiences with those parts of the universe than transcend our experiences. By the way in which we fit our life and each part of our life into a larger order of experience. Be it a friend, a family, a society, the world, nature, a company, etc. Value is found in the expansion and transcending of oneself.

The value is 93!

By Erwin. April 26th, 2010 at 9:03 pm

we can conclude that it is true, that “real” values must come from a transcendent

No, we can’t – we can conclude that it is not true that a supposed “transcendental source” of values would have any effect whatsoever on the “realness” of those values, as the entry clearly shows, so it is certainly not true that “‘real’ values must come from a transcendent”.

Ok, so the bigger system transcends the smaller, the macrocosm is transcendent of the microcosm. Thus even though the whole is still falling into entropy the smaller part is actually decreasing in entropy.

The “bigger system” doesn’t “transcend” the smaller at all – the smaller system is contained within the larger one, and is an open sub-system within it. “Transcendental”, in this context, means “above or outside of the physical universe”, and this isn’t remotely what you’re talking about at all.

As for the second part, it’s well known that the fact entropy tends to increase within a closed system does not mean that the entropy of one part of that system cannot quite easily decrease at the expense of an increase in entropy in another part of that system. We wouldn’t be able to build computers and airplanes if this wasn’t true. But this has nothing to do with values.

If we think of values this way, then the value of a thing is not intrinsic to the local level, that is not in the subjective sum of experiences, The value is found in how each experience allows us to grow and interact with new experiences beyond ourself.

Firstly, you say that value is not in the subjective sum of experiences, and then go on to claim that value is found in the acquisition of new experiences. You can’t have it both ways.

Secondly, your reasoning forces one to the conclusion that value is found in every new experience, since every single new experience “allows us to to grow and interact with new experiences beyond ourself”. This renders the whole concept of “value” – which is a function of relative worth – absolutely meaningless, and hence your idea of value fails for a second independent reason.

Thus the universe as a whole may not have any ‘REAL” value, but we experience a sense of value by the interaction of our personal experiences with those parts of the universe than transcend our experiences.

How, exactly, does one have “personal experiences with those parts of the universe tha[t] transcend our experiences”? If the “transcend our experiences” then we evidently can’t have experiences with them.

I’ve humoured this comment, but this blog is not the place to present your own weird metaphysical ideas that can only be argued to be even tangentially related to my own post by gratuitously misusing words like “transcendent”.

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